www.cowries.info

[benicypraea]

Hello all:

I´d like to know what are the five rarest cowry species in the world.
For instance (question marks are because I am not sure 100%)

# 1 Zoila mariellae?
# 2 Zoila perlae perlae?
# 3 Nesiocypraea alexhuberti?
# 4 ??
# 5 ??
Ideas, thoughts, opinions and remarks welcome.
Regards,
Beni
_________________
I started to collect seashells since my childhood but I decided to focus on cowries in 1990. I like all kind of cowries, freaks, normal, nigers, dwarfs...
Also I collect conidae and Muricidae.

[Philipp]

Good question Beni. Do you remember the alexhuberti auction a few weeks ago? I had bid on it and told that to a friend of mine. "Are you crazy, so much money!" At least I could say to him, that there are some more people who are interested in this shell and all were willing to bid even more money. Moreover you won't find more than ten of it - worldwide.

Hmmm… 10… is this number absolutely reliable? Today I would say there are 50 specimens of alexhuberti. But… who knows?

If it is possible please let me know, what means "rare" in connection with cowries - 10 pieces, 100 or after all 1000?

Philipp

[Gazoo]

Hello everyone. I would think that it'd be nearly impossible to put together an acurate list of the rarest cowries. While mariellae, perlae perlae and alexhuberti would certainly be up there, I've seen much less rosseli edingeri offered for sale over the years. While the rarity of mariellae and perlae could be attributed to the inaccessability of their habitat, edingeri seems to have disappeared entirely from a still accessable area (at least as far as I know, please correct me otherwise), after such a small quantity was found. Since edingeri is a color form of satiata (once again, please correct me if I'm mistaken), it could be argued that the actual species wouldn't be among the rarest. Regardless, I would imagine edingeri to be among the top 5 rarest and most valuable cowries in the world. Alexhuberti, while certainly among the rarest, is also still being found every now and then. Vincent Crayssac had at least 2 offered from his site in the past couple years. I would think the deep water form of friendii would be among the rarest as well. In Lorenz's Monograph of the Living Zoila, he had mentioned about 10 specimens were known. This would be much rarer than mariellae, of which about 50 specimens are known. Friendii kostini seems to be among the rarest at the moment, but this seems because of the recent description and that most specimens have simply been hiding in older collections. Nesiocypraea aenigma and Austrasiatica deforgesi are probrably about as rare as rare can get, and there are certainly lesser known species either decribed or undergoing inspection that are known from only one or two specimens.

[crushed tomato]

this is my humble opinion: i saw every single cypraea in the auctiona, dealers list but cypraea garciai...
i wonder how many c. garciai out there.
_________________
you must be change you wish to see in the world...

[felix]

1. Austrasiatica deforgesi - 1 poor specimen known
2. Contradusta sp. (un-named) from Birma - 1 good specimen known
3. Pedicypraedia atlantica - 1 specimen, but it is only "half a cowry"
4. Nesiocypraea aenigma - 3 specimens known

less than twenty:
Cribrarula gravida, Nesiocypraea sp. from Australes (un-named), Luria tessellata lani, Cypraeovula kesslerorum

something in the range of 20-50: Zoila rosselli edingeri, Cypraeovula colligata, Cypraeovula iutsui levissima, Bistolida piae, Bistolida stolida uvongoensis, Austrasiatica alexhuberti, Zoila friendii kostini, Annepona mariae suluensis

certainly more than 50: Zoila perlae, Zoila mariellae, Cribrarula garciai

Whether or not something gets offered on lists does not at all reflect the true rarity. I have moved four mariellae and at least twice as many perlae in recent years, but you would not remember seeing them appear on my lists.

[benicypraea]

Hello all:

Thanks for replies! I agree with Gazoo about Zoila roselli satiata f. edingeri. I was fortunate to handle (for a minutes!) a real edingeri from the "golden years". This shell was adquired in the 80´s in the last century before the recently discovered population was absolutly devastated.
The luckly owner of this rare shell told me that they were found just a few dozens of specimens since the discovery.
About Zoila mariellae, another shell that I was fortunately to see and "touch" on a table just a months ago, I think that the main problem to get this shell to the market is the deep water habitat where the cowry lives and the poor information about the "locus typicus". Information provided by Raybaudi is not enough, in my opinion, to find such rarities there in a vast area of WA..
Probably where they ocurs, they are not so rare, at least in my opinion.
Golden Zoila (as thersites) and pure albinos are even rarer than mariellae or perlae perlae. Zoila friendii from deep water illustrated by Lorenz may be a good instance.
Also I agree with Lorenz and Philipp, crushed tomato, also I would like to know how many specimens of garciai have been collected there, but I think they are much rare because the kind of habitat where they lives (maybe I am wrong!).
I feel curiosity about Nesiocypraea sp. from Australes Islands. Its maybe something closer to sakuraii-teramachii-alexhuberti? or maybe a little jewel closest to smaller nesiocypraea as midwayensis-lisetae?
Felix, that list of rarities is really a good point to make (I think myself) a current revision of the rarest cowries in the world.
I think is possible to separate in the list only valid species and later the same with colour variations-subspecies of certain species to "illustrate" a fantastic plate with all of them. For instance, in one list is possible to mark Zoila mariellae, perlae, etc, depending of the number of specimens known of course, and the other list will be possible to mark the subspecies or ecological variations as such as Zoila roselli satiata f. edingeri, Zoila friendii kostini, etc...always in function of the number of finds.
But I have the thought that the list is not complete yet. I´m sure there are many other cowries (Notadusta omii, katsuae guidoi) with options to enter in these lists.
Again, more remarks, indications, thoughts, criticism, etc are welcome...
Regards,
Beni
_________________
I started to collect seashells since my childhood but I decided to focus on cowries in 1990. I like all kind of cowries, freaks, normal, nigers, dwarfs...
Also I collect conidae and Muricidae.

[felix]

Hi Beni

Notadusta (actually Palmulacypraea) omii is the true musumea (the name was based on a slender specimen). Rare as that is, it certainly does not deserve a place in the upper 20 species.

As for garciai. I have personally moved approx. 20 pcs and still possess further 7 of them. they are not that rare, and not that deep. It was a matter of finding the habitat, and the right time to search for them. If that was not found in Easter Island but some place in the Philippines, we would all have several in our collections. Like any Cribrarula, you need to know exactly where they live. In years of collecting in indonesia, Philippines and other places, even normal cribraria are not easy to find unless you know the place and the right time. A few years back, dayritiana dani would have been in our list of rarest cowries, so what has become of this??

Mariellae remains a mystery, nobody (including Raybaudi) has ever had an idea where these were found. Guesses at most. My gut-feeling is that they are not far from the place where eludens and perlae came from, probably just offshore, at somewhat deeper water.

Zoila edingeri (form of satiata)..... Probably the rarest of all as it is only an occasional mutation, not a breeding population. I have been to the place where that mutation occurred, and finding a normal satiata these days is difficult. that is again not because there are no more but it is just too hard to get there with a boat and a team of divers to spend a reasonable amount of time and effort. I have no doubt that they are still out there...

The Austral Is. Nesiocypraea is similar to midwayensis but has dense and dark dorsal netting, and more teeth.

[seychelles]

I have not seen too many live-superb gem ostergaardi or fultoni fultoni specimens floating around. In the fossil realm, good examples of
Umbilia siphoplax (a Miocene hybrid) are toughies.

[crushed tomato]

[benicypraea]

Thanks for reply, Felix!
This night I will dream about one gem dark garciai collected by myself under a huge rock!
Remarks about mariellae and roselli satiata (edingeri or not) are interesting.
Regards,
Beni
_________________
I started to collect seashells since my childhood but I decided to focus on cowries in 1990. I like all kind of cowries, freaks, normal, nigers, dwarfs...
Also I collect conidae and Muricidae.

[Phoenyx Fyre Arts]

hello Everyone!

I have no visited the forum for a short period of time, but I am happy to see some great questions and topics! I find the recent question on rarest species very interesting and very informative! It was interesting to see Felix give a numerical quantification to those rare shells and it reminded me of my once-favorite cowrie book by Burgess! However, even then, it struck me as debatable to put a number on it because that number will always change, and therefore the wonderful book you depend on for information may not be so dependable 10 years beyond publication. it is still a great piece of data to have at the time of issue!

Two other things of note... I read a comment that said Felix was the only one to have garciai, but I have seen garciai offered at least once by another dealer. I also read the numerical value for colligata! I was recently thinking of trying to sell my specimen ( a dead -taken one...) but now I may change my mind! This forum is outstanding! It is very nice to raise questions and issues among ourselves, and to have them answered by the World's Premiere Cypraea Experts! Thank you, as always!

Rusty ~ Phoenyx Fyre Arts

[cowryman3sai]

Flawless answering by everyone on this question.Just a thought on one aspect of rarity.Using Garcai as an example,say when discovered in say a very small cave at perhaps 25 fathoms there were in fact 75 specimens and all but 4 or 6 were taken they may be rarer under water than in personal collections.I think we want to look at all aspects for example looking at both sides of the coin if instead of 75 specimens taken there were only 10 or 15 takens allowing for less disturbance of this teeny pocket(private home),that once a year 5 more could be brought up safely but if not this could possibly go extinct.Not saying it is or will but its nice to keep these things in mind to prevent that possibility .Like a small village in the desert,take some of us but don't elimanate us intirely.On to another aspect I've been thinking of almost 24/7 for a very long time.Though in my opinion guttata are quite common I think large well developed spectacular guttata are rare if not at least somewhere near that catagory.My main thought is to try to branch off into other aspects with any questions.A little like a basketball game,keeping the ball in play otherwise you have a silent empty court 1 side of the coin,the other side being when anyone fills your teacup you love a full one ,Outside the circle of coin philosophy is the more important fact no one wants to see a species go extinct,but in closing all we have to think about is leaving a small footprint anywhere we go in nature and it should live forever of coarse theres the take it all out,that's survival of the fittest I prefer no way Josey Awesome forum moving along with great timing!Cool!
_________________
Robert F.Grant lll in Salina,Kansas 67401 U.S.A. Check webshots.com and cypraea collectors are now on Facebook.com.It's extremely cool!!A must check.Been collecting for 45 years.

[EmberCowrie]

As a corollary to what cowryman3sai said.

If you were taking less than all, whould you simply grab the first x you saw, or would you be selective? On the one hand if there was some sort of restriction either moral or lawful (i.e. some sort of bag limit) on a shell I was collection so that I could only take a few of it, I'd of course want the absolutely best specimen (s) I could get. On the other hand if even the smallest part of what makes a given species's shells spectacular is genetic, you could argue that, by consistently takey the best and most beautiful shells you will over time, remove thier traits from the gene pool, so that each generation of shells will become less attactive than the one before it. Even if a given cowrie survived as a species, if each and every one produced shells that we found unattractive, I imagine most of us would cosider the species, from our point of view, functionally extinct.

[PVDB]

PVDB - rarity of shells
This is all very beautifull, but rather theoretical:

1.Diving in a cave, with limited supply of air/oxygen, with limited vision, in sometimes difficult environment, I will take a seat and examin the 20mm large garciai one by one with a looking glass and take only a few of them, leaving the largest,the most beautifull, the egg protecting and - also the pairs - and come to surface with only a few damaged or imperfect shells and dead shells - knowing that I left X times 1000$ or more behind. This is of course very noble. To add to my frustration, the next day another diver will empty the cave.
With 75 pieces I could(would?) probably leave a few behind, but what if I encounter only 5 specimen on my diving trip.Is it more ethical to take all of 5 instead of 50% of 75.

2. The best a shell collector could do to protect environment would be: not telling the exact place where he found his treasures; and that issue is not very ethical nor. And this issue too is only a question of postponing execution time.(The ideal solution would be not taking any specimen at all)

3. Selective harvesting works only when expierenced divers know the place, already harvested in the past and most of all - and by good chance -the ethics of their behaviour is not totally devoid of interest: the preservation of "their" Ali Baba cave!

4. QUIZ: on Your dive You find 4 rosselli edingeri/satiata
- to make things a bit more comfortable: none is taking care of eggs or whatsoever - they are not in pair
- to make things a bit more uncomfortable: they are all perfect in every possible way, large and worth - let Us admit it - a small fortune
QUESTION: what will You do MULTIPLE QUESTION ANSWER
- I take all of them
- I take only...
(only all is allowed answer)(75 is not allowed answer)
- I take nice pictures
- I wake up.

I tried not to get involved in the rarity quest, but life is life.

6 or 7(?)Garciai was offered to my knowledge or to me directly already from 4 different(?) sources: prices went between aprox.1200 and 3000 $ or euro.
I did not kept the offers.
I have not added one to my collection yet.
I know a few in collections.

Barbieri?midwayensis?nymphae?ostergaardi?
Felix thanks for mentioning suluensis - few people seem to be aware of it.

Best Belgian Regards from PVDB.

[Bardamu]

Hi everyone-

Yes in the 1960's we would have been talking about things like valentia, leucodon, fultoni, broderipii ...

Now, as Felix says, aenigma, deforgesi, kesslerorum ...

In regards to garciai, it would be reckless, I think, to declare this the end of the line for this complex. Anyone looking for new cowries might do well do explore in 40m of water around Henderson, Pitcairn and Sala y Gomez, which is easier said than done of course.

Best regards
Lynton