www.cowries.info

[EmberCowrie]

Hi all,

I am in the process of putting a goodly portion of my holiday gift money, (courtesty of my oh so generous parents) on adding a few choice specimens to my collection, and before I make my final decisions I need the aswer to a "newbie type" question

Amongs the shells on my potential list is an decentish example of Luria lurida pulcroides, However when I went online to check for info, quite a few sites mentioned that Luria lurida minima was a subsubspecies of pulcroides. I've already got a minima [/i, (which was simply sold to me as that, but not everyone lists the subspecies if it is a subsubspecies) does this mean I already have a [i]pulcroides (in which case I would probably pass on this speciemen and put my money towars something I don't have) or are there both minimas that are lurida pulcriodes and minimas that are just lurida lurida?

[rjsheller]

Hi,
Luria lurida pulchroides f. minima refers to the dwarf form of lurida pulchroides, which is the West African subspecies. If the specimen you are considering is a larger example then you may want to go ahead and get it as a comparison for your dwarf. If you are just starting out with collecting cowries and have not yet acquired Felix's "Guide" I would also recommend seriously considering using some of your Holiday money for that purchase. There is a lot of information available online but there is nothing like having this reference book readily available. As with any type of collecting, the deeper your knowledge and understanding of the subject material, ultimately the more enjoyable and rewarding it will be.
Cheers,
randy

[EmberCowrie]

thnaks for the info. as for getting the book, I'll think about it, but the catch (as based on my previos collections) is that eventually the amount of reference material you need to seriosly follow a collection, (espcially a not too popular collecting field where the reference works tend to get rather pricey) evetually gets to be so much that you have no money to actually collect anything, every cent you have goes to reference material.

[EmberCowrie]

sorry hit send button too soon

I may get the book eventually, but as it stand puchasing it would take not only ALL of my holiday budget, as well as my general shell buying budget for the next six months. I agree that "the deeper your knowledge the grater your enjoyment" (and the less likey your are to get seriosly rooked) but not if the cost of getting that knowedge is sacraficing everything else. Before I started cowries seriosly, my main hobby was collecting antique Venetian trade beads; that ended because the cost of getting the complete Picard series (to trade bead collectors what Lorenz's book is to Cowrie collectors) took my entire possible buying budget for a year (okay that's only half true the real reason was that having seen the book I realized the collection I had worked so hard to build was nothing and couldn't take the ego hit) I've got a birthy coming up pretty soon, as well, if the shells and other things look slow (and I am exausting the basics on ebay), maybe I'll ask for the book then.

[PVDB]

Amice, good documentation is crucial in collecting whatever You want to collect, as is wise advice of friend collectors AND friend dealers that earned your confidence.And such an initial investment - good documentation - how expensive it can seem in the beginning - pays more than You could actually realise.
For small budget people this is even more important than for relatively prosperous people: if a wealthy collector makes an error of a few 100$ it is for sure frustrating, but after all not a catastrophy.It is a more frustrating experience when this happens to a "poor" collector that spends the money he saved with difficulty over several months, giving up other pleasures, for bying his dream/soon to become nightmare item.So, dont hurt Your "purse", and if You go for the big game: be super informed and by from reliable source.
This implicates too that if Your adviser counsels You abstinence, that You will indeed not purchase that item.
I get often irritated by friend collectors who ask advice concerning - most often doctored cowries - and getting a negative advice like, "for sure this shell has been manipulated" - nevertheless purchase the item still thinking they have hit the bingo.(albino aurantium f.i.)
And even an expert can sometimes (seldom) be wrong;

Idem dito with - accepted - but confusing names. The great L.Raybaudi Massilia was a "master" in descriptive - but often misunderstood or more often misused - by others - (sur)names : forma niger, nigerrima, nigerrissima, minima,minor,major,maxima,saturata a.s.o.; these names are just the Italian or Roman translation for : black, more black, the most intensive black possible,as smallest, small, large, largest, full coloured: just a description of the shell, nothing to do with local formae,subspecies or species.
More complicated even for scientific names that are so suggestive that they can only lead to confusion: lurida minima is indeed a name used for the (very) small form of lurida pulchroides of W.Africa. But very small mediterrannean lurida lurida are sometimes sold as lurida "minima".I have a very small lurida oceanica sold as lurida "oceanica minima".
Correct names for these items are indeed: read Lorenz Guide p.80 & p.81
l.a.West Africa: luria lurida pulchroides: (WRS,small, normal, large,WRL: best with precise measures)
1.b.West Africa: (ex cypraea lurida minima) = luria lurida pulchroides "minima" (idem dito - strictu senso even "large" l.l.p.minima do exist)
2.Mediterrannean: luria lurida lurida : (idem dito:WRS,small, normal, large, WRL)
3.non-coastal Atlantic islands: luria lurida oceanica : (idem dito:WRS,small, normal, large, WRL)
..........(pulchroides is more the "African Atlantic islands" form??)
..........(l.l.p.m.is more the African coast form??)

Other confusing name for the novice: mappa subsignata ,
(mappa alga), mappa rosea, mappa viridis, mappa montrouzieri, mappa admirabilis: can all have a significant basal (columellar) coloured blotch.

Hope to be of some help and not making things even more difficult.

Have a peacefull X-Mas and a nice Next Year.

PVDB.

[EmberCowrie]

I'm actually going for a compromise, I'm going to see if my local library system has an older copy (there are a lot of science major universites around me so they probably do) this will let me see if it is the right book for me, without having to make the finacial outlay. If I like it, then I can buy my own copy (by that point I should have enough extra money to do so)

[ricdoc57]

Dear EmberCowrie, it is not a matter of liking it or not, it is the essential reference book for all cowries-lovers! Would you ever say: "I will take a glance at that book that everybody seems to mention and decide if I like it or not; what is its name? Ah, the Bible."? You simply cannot do without it if you want to study or simply collect cowries. Pay attention to find the second edition, the one with a green background on cover, not the red one, that is older and missing many taxa; you should find it at around 100$. After that you will probably have to buy the "New worldwide cowries", still by Lorenz, but much cheaper than the other one; it contains the descriptions of many new taxa, essentially most of those that have been described after the Guide. But this can be a much later problem.

Follow what PVDB says, I think that his words are pure wisdom and I thank him for these and for many more things. On dealers' lists you will certainly find hundreds of names, many of which do not mean anything but are only aimed at fooling unexperienced buyers. If you follow Felix's Guide and his checklist (on this site) you should be safe. Really, this is a jungle and without some attention and not following the advice of those who have more experience it is easy to waste money for nothing. Read for instance the posts on "Beware of fakes!" in this forum to learn what happens around this world. One day I will tell you the mistakes I did because of lack of experience.

Happy shelling and many season's greetings!

Riccardo

[seychelles]

Lots of good advice in this thread's earlier posts.
Before acquiring any more shells I would buy the Lorenz GWWCII and
NWWC and study the About Cowries section of this website and become
familiar with Hardy's Internet Guide To Marine Gastropods (release
23.03) and with Cypraea.net. Also try to get a strong idea of the groups
that you like best and set realistic collecting goals with regard to extent
and grade of cowries you will be able to acquire. Always buy the best
you can afford and understand.

[EmberCowrie]

Okay, okay ENOUGH! You've conviced me. I am setting aside a portion of my weekly money with the purpose of getting the books, which I what I was ultimately intending to do anyway. I just am not willing to completely stop buying shells entirely till then. given how much I get and how much I tend to spend on other things, I would have the requistie money in a month or so anyway. My mean expenditure on cowries is about $5 every other week (I'm a very retiring bidder, and tend to only even look at shells that are really low to open and walk away as soon as anyone else bids on them); the loss I will suffer doing business as usual if I am cheated is minimal, and anything I've already bought is a loss anyway. If a shell is a "space filler" (one I'm getting just for the type) I tend to wait on purchase anyway. in the case of the odd shell I fall in love with (in love with that partiucualar specimen) then quite frankly I really DON'T CARE if it's a good price for the species or subspecies, I'm in love with that particualr shell, if I find the price acceptable, that's really all that's important. I collect becuse I love thier beauty, not to make a profit (if this forum has taught me one thing, its that making a profit on one's cowrie colecction in the long run is impossible, shells ten to get more common, and go down in price as time goes by.) or to have one of everything (this too is probably impossible) If, when I get the books it turns out that a shell I bought was missatributed , and is some rare and valuable subspecies, great, if it turns out it the other way, well, I still have a beautiful shell and I havent lost much. I just don't buy expesive things I'm not at that point in my collection yet (I can count the shells I've bought that were more than $20 on one hand), so I really can't lose much. I agree that condition is important but I'll take an arabica with a breathaking net on top and a chip in the terminal, to a gem one with a ho-hum pattern any day of the week. I pretty much only buy from the same ten or so dealers every time, and I trust most of thier attibutions impictly, and even if I didn't I buy the shell not the name (Would I love my arabica immanis any less if it was just a really big arabica arabica?, of course not!) I an really greatful for the advice, but most of it, is for a collector whose far further along (and buying far more expensive shells than I) There I;ve finshed my rant thank you

[glina]

I suppose, we all started with small amounts and were frustrated once the numbers got serious. But once the thing gets rolling, oh my .

If you were to buy only one book on cowries, Felix's Guide is the choice.
In my most intensive period of acquiring and learning, I used the book almost every other day. It's indispensable if you're willing to get a genuine understanding of cowrie identification. It doesn't mean you wont make mistakes, but you'll now where to look, and how to look. Once you have the Guide nearly memorized, you're officially an advanced collector .Then comes the more rewarding part, when you actually look at shells in the book and think: WOW - my shell is nicer/bigger/better than Felix's .

I still didn't buy the New Worldwide Cowries, but I never felt a need to have it. I did get Felix's guide to Zoilas though, for all those pretty pictures. Still, if you're into Zoila, I recommend you get the Australia's Spectacular Cowries for a wider view on the subject.

Nowadays, the greatest thing next to none is "the checklist".
http://www.cowries.info/checklist/a/checklistx.php
It's the first place I look when in doubt about something. Thanks Felix!

Back to the topic, I see the "minima" form as a dealers way to describe smaller shells and nothing more. I have Mediterranean luridas as small as smallest of the Atlantic ones.

Regards, Mikolaj

[Bart]

I have followed the discussion about spending money on good reference books. I have spent quite some money on books and publications on Cowries (from the monograph of Schilder to all the publications of our
expert: Felix Lorenz).
They have prooved themselves to be very useful!
During shellshows I meet lots of shellcollectors who spend large amounts of money but they lack the knowledge...and sometimes they are buying the same species over and over again, simply to add a "new name" to their collection. They are merely collecting synonyms...
I have lots of Cypraea lurida but they all differ in size, colour, shape, etc.
They come from areas like: Cyprus, Turkey, Italy, Tunesia, Canary Islands, Senegal, Cameroon, etc.etc.
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I am always interested in buying or exchanging Cowries, especially when they are very variable.