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[syncerus18]

you guys misinterpreted me! I wasnt questioning the value of shells Its one thing I respect and find aesthetically pleasing. I was however asking how can two shells: Shell-A and Shell-B possess different values when Shell-B is nothing but a synonym of Shell-A (venusta episema and venusta episema sorrentensis, which some of you agree to be one and the same too).

I guess its just a matter of reference?

Regards.

[ozcyp]

I understand your point, don't worry.

The topic just became a little side tracked.

As mentioned before, it really comes down to the dealers what name ends up on the label. The 'crossover' point from sorrentensis to episema tends to be around the 60mm plus mark. I kept any shells from 50mm to 62mm together and then displayed 63mm to 80mm in the next row only for aesthetic reasons. In future I may display shells in the order of locality starting from south to north for something a bit different.

Re: The price of any given venusta sorrentensis or episema will be judged also on the grade, colour and size of the specimen.

Eg., a small standard sorrentensis around 53mm with typical colour and f+++/gem grade nowadays is between $40 to $60.
Then along comes a 61mm, gem with very dark to black colour and its $100.

The same examples apply to the large 75mm to 80+mm 'episema' monsters that come out of Geography Bay, but now we're talking a few hundred dollars.

I'd be interested to know what the Guide 3 says about these large beauties.

[dan81]

to me its not so much the size of the shell but the locality of where the shell was found that defines the name. the inshore population of venusta around the marmion marine park are usually named sorrentensis. i believe this name was derived from the closest city to this stretch of coastline, Sorrento. i have found sorrentensis over the 60mm mark and episima from rottenest under the 60mm mark.

[syncerus18]

[Cribraria Kid]

[syncerus18]

[Notocypraea]

Definitely a case of misunderstanding!
I for one have no problem with spending $XXX on good quality specimens with good reliable data etc. Yes I do get annoyed with the profusion of names (most scientifically invalid from my information and in my opinion) used but will in future hold my tongue more!
I will also try and refrain from my Smart Ass comments!
I have been fortunate to dive with a number of Commercial Zoila shell divers and with perhaps the exception of those lucky guys down in Albany I believe the price of Zoila is more than justified given the hard work, distances involved and frequency of encountering specimen quality shells.

I also agree for example that 'Sorrentensis' is a great form name for the inshore Marmion form.
As CK stated the small, dark and slightly twisted (male?)specimens from that area are quite unique in appearance.
But to me this is only a Form name. The animal is identical to that in the venusta from north & south & south west! As to the GAB form I have no idea of what the animal is like!

I really look forward to how the venusta group is treated in Edition No.3 of the Guide!

Best Regards,
Simon

PS. So who has a venusta episema roseopunctata to sell me then... sorry just ignore me!

[syncerus18]

Hello:

@Simon your nonadherence to the episema name is very evident. I have a venusta episema f. Sorrentensis f. Roseopunctata x roseoimmaculata for sale Im sorry.

So sorrentensis is localized to Marmion area only? And further, only applicable to the smaller twisted shells in that said area?

Thank you for the response guys. Alls perfectly clear now.

[fertooos]

I fully agree with Simon on sorrentensis/episema. sorrentensis is a small episema, a variation at most. Depends on the dealer if a 60 mm is episema or sorrentensis....

However, venusta has several well defined subspecies as I will demonstrate in the guide 3. These are geographical or bathymetrical ssp. be prepared for a surprise here.